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	<title>Comments on: NormalVision (part 4), Taking it Farther</title>
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	<link>http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/14/normalvision-part-4-taking-it-farther/</link>
	<description>art of the game, roleplaying game theory from the brain of ben robbins</description>
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		<title>By: Svafa</title>
		<link>http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/14/normalvision-part-4-taking-it-farther/comment-page-1/#comment-19089</link>
		<dc:creator>Svafa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lamemage.com/proto/wordpress/?p=14#comment-19089</guid>
		<description>On the RollingVision I am a bit uncertain.  I think the extreme is likely dangerous with most groups, at least in my experience.  I did run a game with a similar, though less extreme, setup to the &quot;million stories&quot;.

Our group was inconsistent, so I created something like West Marches, though a little more directed (I presented options and let them choose).  However, I also provided all the characters (about a dozen to start) and then let them pick whichever character they wanted when they sat down.  Every game.

The general idea was that there would always be a premade character available and waiting if someone showed up.  Nor were you glued down to one character or role.  If you decided that you didn&#039;t like playing a Ranger, then you could try your hand at a Wizard or Barbarian.  If you thought the mission for the day might require the abilities of a Cleric, but not a Monk, then you could switch your character.

But characters and personalities were constants.  The first time someone sat down to a new character was always interesting, because they created the personality.  And when someone else sat down to the same character they were expected to play with the set personality, and riff off of it.  Character sheets ended up with all sorts of fun little notes like &quot;foppish&quot;, &quot;drunkard&quot;, &quot;boisterous&quot;, &quot;dangerously optimistic&quot;, &quot;hacking coughs&quot;, etc.

And the game was made to be communal like this.  They came together, were given their mission (or made it up) and then decided what characters should come.  Sometimes they even swapped characters between parts of the mission (maybe the Rogue does intel, but they switch to the Fighter when it&#039;s time to execute on it).  It gave the group more of a guild feel, which I think was kind of appropriate for the scenario, since well, they were playing various members of a guild.

It gave some of the &quot;million stories&quot; feel, but kept the players interested in the characters, as they returned each week.  Anyway, an example of what I would consider a slight slight extreme RollingVision.  And possibly, more practical to most groups, whether they prefer hack&#039;n&#039;slash or in-depth role-play.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the RollingVision I am a bit uncertain.  I think the extreme is likely dangerous with most groups, at least in my experience.  I did run a game with a similar, though less extreme, setup to the &#8220;million stories&#8221;.</p>
<p>Our group was inconsistent, so I created something like West Marches, though a little more directed (I presented options and let them choose).  However, I also provided all the characters (about a dozen to start) and then let them pick whichever character they wanted when they sat down.  Every game.</p>
<p>The general idea was that there would always be a premade character available and waiting if someone showed up.  Nor were you glued down to one character or role.  If you decided that you didn&#8217;t like playing a Ranger, then you could try your hand at a Wizard or Barbarian.  If you thought the mission for the day might require the abilities of a Cleric, but not a Monk, then you could switch your character.</p>
<p>But characters and personalities were constants.  The first time someone sat down to a new character was always interesting, because they created the personality.  And when someone else sat down to the same character they were expected to play with the set personality, and riff off of it.  Character sheets ended up with all sorts of fun little notes like &#8220;foppish&#8221;, &#8220;drunkard&#8221;, &#8220;boisterous&#8221;, &#8220;dangerously optimistic&#8221;, &#8220;hacking coughs&#8221;, etc.</p>
<p>And the game was made to be communal like this.  They came together, were given their mission (or made it up) and then decided what characters should come.  Sometimes they even swapped characters between parts of the mission (maybe the Rogue does intel, but they switch to the Fighter when it&#8217;s time to execute on it).  It gave the group more of a guild feel, which I think was kind of appropriate for the scenario, since well, they were playing various members of a guild.</p>
<p>It gave some of the &#8220;million stories&#8221; feel, but kept the players interested in the characters, as they returned each week.  Anyway, an example of what I would consider a slight slight extreme RollingVision.  And possibly, more practical to most groups, whether they prefer hack&#8217;n'slash or in-depth role-play.</p>
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		<title>By: ben robbins</title>
		<link>http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/14/normalvision-part-4-taking-it-farther/comment-page-1/#comment-12701</link>
		<dc:creator>ben robbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lamemage.com/proto/wordpress/?p=14#comment-12701</guid>
		<description>&lt;p class=&quot;ars-commentquote&quot;&gt;In your article about Player Fear, you made a good point that they have more fear if they walk into it and anticipate it coming.&lt;/p&gt;
That&#039;s exactly right Gumby. The players are more willing to embrace the danger or any disadvantages because they put themselves in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p class="ars-commentquote">In your article about Player Fear, you made a good point that they have more fear if they walk into it and anticipate it coming.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s exactly right Gumby. The players are more willing to embrace the danger or any disadvantages because they put themselves in it.</p>
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		<title>By: Gumby</title>
		<link>http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/14/normalvision-part-4-taking-it-farther/comment-page-1/#comment-12699</link>
		<dc:creator>Gumby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 15:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lamemage.com/proto/wordpress/?p=14#comment-12699</guid>
		<description>On the other hand, VillainVision sounds &lt;i&gt;awesome&lt;/i&gt;, especially if it features villains that the PCs are already familiar with. In your article about Player Fear, you made a good point that they have more fear if they walk into it and anticipate it coming. An ambush in the night will feel much more exciting when they &lt;i&gt;know&lt;/i&gt; it&#039;s coming and they had a minor hand in the preparations for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the other hand, VillainVision sounds <i>awesome</i>, especially if it features villains that the PCs are already familiar with. In your article about Player Fear, you made a good point that they have more fear if they walk into it and anticipate it coming. An ambush in the night will feel much more exciting when they <i>know</i> it&#8217;s coming and they had a minor hand in the preparations for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Gumby</title>
		<link>http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/14/normalvision-part-4-taking-it-farther/comment-page-1/#comment-12698</link>
		<dc:creator>Gumby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 14:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lamemage.com/proto/wordpress/?p=14#comment-12698</guid>
		<description>I agree, rookie; I&#039;ve never liked any books that sound like Rolling Vision unless I already have a history or connection to the characters from prior sources. It sounds like, for the players, it would run way too high of a risk of feeling like a bunch of one-shots and throwaway characters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, rookie; I&#8217;ve never liked any books that sound like Rolling Vision unless I already have a history or connection to the characters from prior sources. It sounds like, for the players, it would run way too high of a risk of feeling like a bunch of one-shots and throwaway characters.</p>
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		<title>By: ben robbins</title>
		<link>http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/14/normalvision-part-4-taking-it-farther/comment-page-1/#comment-3536</link>
		<dc:creator>ben robbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lamemage.com/proto/wordpress/?p=14#comment-3536</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;There is one strength of Normal vision that hasn&#039;t been mentioned, which is the way it can give strength to the main plot by making the casualties seem real.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Very good point R00kie.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;I&#039;m a big fan of &#039;normal vision&#039; but I have to say I&#039;ve hated the &#039;Rolling Vision&#039; concept ever since I read Asimov&#039;s Foundation series.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Oooh, touché.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;There is one strength of Normal vision that hasn&#8217;t been mentioned, which is the way it can give strength to the main plot by making the casualties seem real.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Very good point R00kie.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;I&#8217;m a big fan of &#8216;normal vision&#8217; but I have to say I&#8217;ve hated the &#8216;Rolling Vision&#8217; concept ever since I read Asimov&#8217;s Foundation series.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Oooh, touché.</p>
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		<title>By: R00kie</title>
		<link>http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/14/normalvision-part-4-taking-it-farther/comment-page-1/#comment-3534</link>
		<dc:creator>R00kie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lamemage.com/proto/wordpress/?p=14#comment-3534</guid>
		<description>There is one strength of Normal vision that hasn&#039;t been mentioned, which is the way it can give strength to the main plot by making the casualties seem real. Finding two bodies beneath a rock wont mean much, but if a week before the players actually played the lovers who huddled together behind a wall hoping the rapaging creature didn&#039;t spot them, then finding the bodies becomes very poniant.

Its even more interesting to reintroduce survivors. What if the rambling drunk who warns the PCs of impending disaster was one of the characters the players played when disaster happened two years before, and you can really raise interest by introducing a character they know is dead, because they played through their death.

I&#039;m a big fan of &#039;normal vision&#039; but I have to say I&#039;ve hated the &#039;Rolling Vision&#039; concept ever since I read Asimov&#039;s Foundation series. I guess the Lensman series has a similar Rolling feel near the beginning, but atleast by the third book it settles on one character. I really do like to have central characters to my campaigns even if the players occassionally get to play other characters or aspects of the setting.

As an experiemnet I am currently considering running a game based around the supporting and auxilliary characters of my campaign, - specifically the players contacts, researchers and leaders. The players are playing agents in the field, but I think I may have something interesting happen back at HQ. Straight off I know the players will be interested, since they already have a vested interest in these characters and any events directly affect the main PCs. Another big advantage is I don&#039;t need to introduce any of the characters - they&#039;ve been interacting with them on a regular basis. The downside is that the characters aren&#039;t disposable, and any deaths will have a huge impact on the campaign (but thats also a benefit in a way). There is a big revolation coming up in the campaign, and just for once I may not allow the main PCs to be the first to find out :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is one strength of Normal vision that hasn&#8217;t been mentioned, which is the way it can give strength to the main plot by making the casualties seem real. Finding two bodies beneath a rock wont mean much, but if a week before the players actually played the lovers who huddled together behind a wall hoping the rapaging creature didn&#8217;t spot them, then finding the bodies becomes very poniant.</p>
<p>Its even more interesting to reintroduce survivors. What if the rambling drunk who warns the PCs of impending disaster was one of the characters the players played when disaster happened two years before, and you can really raise interest by introducing a character they know is dead, because they played through their death.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a big fan of &#8216;normal vision&#8217; but I have to say I&#8217;ve hated the &#8216;Rolling Vision&#8217; concept ever since I read Asimov&#8217;s Foundation series. I guess the Lensman series has a similar Rolling feel near the beginning, but atleast by the third book it settles on one character. I really do like to have central characters to my campaigns even if the players occassionally get to play other characters or aspects of the setting.</p>
<p>As an experiemnet I am currently considering running a game based around the supporting and auxilliary characters of my campaign, &#8211; specifically the players contacts, researchers and leaders. The players are playing agents in the field, but I think I may have something interesting happen back at HQ. Straight off I know the players will be interested, since they already have a vested interest in these characters and any events directly affect the main PCs. Another big advantage is I don&#8217;t need to introduce any of the characters &#8211; they&#8217;ve been interacting with them on a regular basis. The downside is that the characters aren&#8217;t disposable, and any deaths will have a huge impact on the campaign (but thats also a benefit in a way). There is a big revolation coming up in the campaign, and just for once I may not allow the main PCs to be the first to find out <img src='http://arsludi.lamemage.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: higgins</title>
		<link>http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/14/normalvision-part-4-taking-it-farther/comment-page-1/#comment-2353</link>
		<dc:creator>higgins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lamemage.com/proto/wordpress/?p=14#comment-2353</guid>
		<description>Hm, the VillainVision would be a total breaker of intrigue. Players finding out who are &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; working together is like the &quot;know who the murderer is from the start&quot; example. But it would be interesting to write a blog about scenes witnessed by no-one, which reveal the hinting dialogue and happenings of &quot;anonymous&quot; people.

RollingVision is an interesting theory. Something like that was offered as a variant gaming style for &lt;i&gt;A Song of Ice and Fire RPG&lt;/i&gt; in Green Ronin forums. A player has a main character and multiple minor ones, so he can make the switch more painlessly should his main character die in the midst of the game of thrones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm, the VillainVision would be a total breaker of intrigue. Players finding out who are <i>really</i> working together is like the &#8220;know who the murderer is from the start&#8221; example. But it would be interesting to write a blog about scenes witnessed by no-one, which reveal the hinting dialogue and happenings of &#8220;anonymous&#8221; people.</p>
<p>RollingVision is an interesting theory. Something like that was offered as a variant gaming style for <i>A Song of Ice and Fire RPG</i> in Green Ronin forums. A player has a main character and multiple minor ones, so he can make the switch more painlessly should his main character die in the midst of the game of thrones.</p>
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